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The Southerm Poverty Law Center’s Mark Potok puts Michigan hate groups in context

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This evening, I had the occasion to speak briefly with Southern Poverty Law Center Senior Fellow Mark Potok. I’d reached out to Potok, who serves as editor-in-chief of the Center’s quarterly journal, the Intelligence Report, and its blog, entitled Hatewatch, as I hoped that he might be able to shed a little light on William Daniel Johnson, the candidate currently running to represent Michigan’s 11th congressional district in the House, who, several days ago, initiated a robocalling campaign asking several people in Canton if they were “concerned about the future of the white race.” Potok was kind enough to grant my request for an interview, and, thanks to Google Voice, you can hear the whole thing below.

In addition to discussing Johnson, and his history as the head of the white supremacist American Third Position party, Potok and I discussed everything from the government’s flawed case against Michigan’s Hutaree Militia to the recent anti-government plot discovered within Georgia’s Fort Stewart Army base, and from Quran-burning, carpet-bagging pastor Terry Jones to the recent campaign being waged by the Family Research Council to push the Southern Poverty Law Center’s Teaching Tolerance program from public schools. As you’ll soon discover, if you follow the link, I’m not at the top of my game, but Potok is incredibly insightful, and compensated for my lackluster performance beautifully. (I was getting into my car when he called, heading to Novi to interview Syed Taj, the Democrat running to represent Michigan’s 11th congressional district in the House, and I was a bit distracted.) At any rate, I’d highly recommend checking it out and telling your friends to do the same. Given the presence of people like Johnson and Jones in our community, I think you’d agree that, now, more than ever, we need to have an open, honest dialogue on hate.

And I didn’t have an opportunity to transcribe the whole thing, but here’s just a little taste.

POTOK: There is a real movement out there. It has grown explosively over the past three years or so. And it’s quite frightening… We have seen an absolutely tremendous growth in the number of militia groups, or so-called “patriot groups,” beginning in the year 2009. In other words, precisely when Barack Obama assumes the presidency. Just to give our listeners an ideas as to what I’m talking about, by our account, in 2008, there were 149 patriot groups, or militia groups. In 2009, that number was 512. In 2010, that number was 824. And, by 2011, the number had reached 1,274, from a mere 149 three years earlier. That kind of growth is something we haven’t seen here ever before. And, of course, it coincides precisely, as I said earlier, with the assumption of power by Barack Obama, our first black President. So, you know, I think what is driving the very rapid growth of these groups is… the changing racial demographics of this country… the idea that whites are losing their majority… will, by the Census Bureau’s prediction, lose their majority by the year 2050… and all of that as represented in the person of Barack Obama. He makes it graphic. He makes it real. A black man in the White House. Of course, at the very same time that Obama appeared on the scene, the economy collapsed. We saw the sub-prime (mortgage) collapse in October of 2008, and then all of the financial mess that followed that. So, you know, there’s a great deal of anger, fear, rage, frustration… those kinds of feelings… scapegoating… among people who are hurting, or who are very afraid for their financial future. So, that very much plugs into these other kinds of fears, and angers, and essentially what we’re living through is a kind of perfect storm right now in terms of favoring the development of these groups.

Now here’s the interview:

And, I didn’t mention it above, but we also get into a few areas which I know people in this audience have traditionally found of interest, such as the cross-pollination between hard-line libertarian groups and those hate groups that are monitored by the SPLC, the growing pervasiveness of right wing conspiracy theories (ranging from FEMA concentration camps to Mexican plots to retake the American Southwest), and the commonly held belief that, if not for the activities of federal agents, who are enabling the activities of home-grown terrorists, there would be no such thing as domestic (read non-Muslim) terrorism.

It’s also worth noting, I think, that our conversation, while depressing, isn’t fatalistic. A good deal of time is spent reflecting on the fact that there have also been periods like this, full of violent backlash, in our past. And, those instances, as Potok notes, generally come when society finds itself on the brink of great, positive change. The Klan, as he noted, was most violent the year after slavery ended. I think that’s an important thing for us to keep in mind. The demographics in America are changing, and a backlash is inevitable, but, with any luck, those of us that survive will come out better on the other side of it.

OK, if you liked this discussion between me and Mark, and have a few extra dollars in your pocket, I’d encourage you to follow this link and make a contribution, so that they can continue their important work. And, as Mark mentions in the interview, in addition to your financial contributions, they would also like to your tips. So, if you know of racist activity in your community, whether it be in Michigan (which, by the way, has 26 hate groups currently being tacked by the SPLC), or elsewhere, please drop Mark’s team a line and let them know. They rely on our tips bring these people into the light of day, where they belong.


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